Devil-Devil interview, Devil-Devil exposed, Devil-Devil talks.

Chapter Seven

___________________________

The Price of
Motherhood

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This book is actually an interview with an Angel of Light whose mission is to expose "The Dark Side" for what it is. He/She shines the God-Light of Love, Inclusion, and Oneness into the pit of illusion, separation, darkness, anger, and fear. F.A.Questions°

An Interview
with

. .

The
Golden Rule:

He who
owns the
Gold rules!

" The Devil "

by R.Robin Cote'

Chapter Seven The Price of Motherhood

T.L.C. OK, what is the price?

Big D First and foremost, forced motherhood violates a woman's God-granted right of self determination. Forced motherhood means her body belong not to her, but to the state. She becomes forced into servitude as a baby factory. Bearing a child has a multitude of life-changing, irreversible, long-term ramifications for the woman, herself, and for everyone her life touches. The first and most significant effect of pregnancy is on the woman herself. The decision to bear or not bear a child affects and alters:

* her life style,

* her standard of living,

* her social life,

* her social status,

* her financial earning capacity,

* her actual income level,

* her financial well being

* her family,

* her friends,

* her choice of friends,

* her relationship with the man who got her pregnant,

* and all the rest of her personal relationships,

* her education level,

* her career,

* the entirety of the rest of her life, particularly

* the next 18 years required to raise a child,

* her physical body,

* her physical beauty,

* her sex life,

* her sexual appeal,

* her emotional well-being,

* her psychological health,

* her physical health,

* and, it could even cost her her life.

Big D And if that's not enough, there are the hundreds of thousands of dollars required to adequately raise and educate a child, and the countless days and hours of tedious labor involved, not to mention that some women are required to give up their life's dream simply because they were pressured into sex that they didn't want by someone they really didn't care for that resulted in a pregnancy they were completely unprepared for.

Is it not obvious that pregnancy and potential motherhood are incredibly personal, private, religious and medical issues that should be addressed by the woman herself, within the context of her own needs, desires, conditions, and circumstances and with the support of family, friends and with the guidance of her medical and spiritual advisors.

Why could anybody with any common sense and with even the slightest bit of concern for the pregnant woman's health and well being propose anything else?

T.L.C. They wouldn't! So Then who would and why?

Big D I’ve already answered that question -- the forced motherhood promoters. Why? Because it's someone else who is paying the price and the leaders are raking in billions of dollars by peddling forced motherhood. Their true Intention, (their hidden agenda) ***ps-7-1 is to create a Christian theocracy in America, ***ps-7-2 but that’s another story for another time.

T.L.C. Are there any other ways to look at this issue?

Big D Of course! If you look at this from a reincarnationist’s perspective, there are no innocent victims. We talking about a co-creation between two eternal beings one in non-physical form choosing to enter Earth life in a human body and the other, presently living in a human body and choosing to create an additional physical body for the other entity to enter into and use while he or she is here on Earth? How, when, and under what circumstances does society get the right to interfere with that kind of divine creation?***ps-7-3 We’ll get into these and dozens of other similar questions later.***ps-7-4

T.L.C. OK, but before we move on, please tell me the basics of the reincarnation beliefs.

Big D The leaders of the Eastern religions who have billions of followers say:

"Physical matter is only a very small part of reality. Life does not begin at conception, or at birth, or anywhere else, and life does not end at death. Humans are not physical bodies. Humans are eternal, non-physical, divine beings who always was and always will be. Each and every human is an eternal being temporarily inhabiting a physical body. While living in physical bodies, humans are intimately connected to nature -- to their Earthly environment. From the overall, spiritual perspective, the death of the physical body is considered to have about the same significance as taking off a suite of clothes.

Everything is one. Everything is a part of and intimately related to everything else. Everything is energy. There was no beginning. There will be no end. Time is an illusion. Eternity is now.

God is not a super human being living above the clouds. God is consciousness -- a Consciousness is so vast and so complex that it transcends human knowledge and human understanding. Humans are also consciousness. God consciousness and human consciousness are intimately inter related.

An 'Intelligent Creator' created everything we know about and everything we still don't know about. Humans are part of and co-creators with the timeless, eternal God. Within the context of life on Earth, we are the creators of our personal experiences."

T.L.C. Thank you. Let’s get back to the forced motherhood controversy. Obviously, if a pregnancy is to be terminated it should be done early in the cycle.

Big D That, as everyone knows, is the ideal, and, sometimes, unforeseen circumstances arise, and it just doesn’t happen that way. Even at a later time in the pregnancy, interfering in a woman’s life implies that she’s not smart enough, ethical enough, or informed well enough to make a decision that is in the long-term best interest of all concerned. Society’s interference also implies that a blind, arbitrary, one-size-fits-all law is smart enough, ethical enough, and informed well enough to make that decision. And again, it denies the reincarnation perspective I just mentioned.

As a compromise, perhaps when the fetus can survive outside the womb without significant medical support could be the selected point at which a developing body is declared to be an independent human being and is accorded individual rights. And even here, it’s not an absolute for how do we know for sure just where that point is? First breath, however, is a clear and easily definable moment, and it has been the undisputed, defining moment in almost all cultures for centuries.

T.L.C. Whew! This is getting complicated way beyond anything I expected when I first asked you about abortion.

Big D I know. Truth has its way of being long and complicated. On the other hand, illusion and lies are much easier to deal with because you can change them, edit them, and manipulate them until they say exactly what you want your listener to hear, and in today’s culture, lies can be adjusted to fit neatly into thirty-second sound bites.

T.L.C. Are there any other perspectives on when life begins?

Big D Of course. From a scientific perspective, life on Earth began several billion years ago and has continued uninterrupted ever since. Life doesn’t begin anymore. It just keeps changing form.***ps-7-5

Life is biochemical and bioelectrical in nature and occurs at a size so small that it’s invisible to the naked human eye. The average adult human body has fifty to seventy trillion (70,000,000,000,000) cell in it, each one of which is alive and co-functioning with the other sixty or so trillion cells. Each of these cells has its own consciousness and lives in its own, unique, little world — a world that most human minds have never even imagined.

Cells are constantly going through their own life cycle — a cycle of birth (cell division) growth, division into additional life forms and then the dying and decay of some of the cells and the restoration, renewal, and revitalization of those cells remaining alive. Have you heard of The Seven Principle of Hermes?***ps-7-6

T.L.C. No.

Big D Here’s just one of the principles. it's called the law of Correspondence: "As above so below; as below so above; as within so without; as without so within."

This law tells us that things which appear to be very different have attributes that are actually quite similar. It also tells us that by studying something known we can learn about something unknown. That, for example, is exactly what statistical samples are all about. By examining a small portion of a population, a determination can be made as to what those same characteristics are for the entire population. Sit quietly for a few moments compare these three relationships, first, compare individual ants to their ant colony, next, compare plants and animals to the Earth, itself, and then compare the cells of your body to yourself, to the person you call Stoney. Hopefully, this will clarify the relationship between you and the cells of your body.

On Earth, when cells group themselves together in mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationships consisting of anywhere from few cells to hundreds of trillions, we call these cell groups plants and animals. ***ps-7-7 These symbiotic cell groups maintain themselves by going through ever evolving cycles of birth, growth, division into additional life and then death of some of the life forms. We see that same cycle in every living thing on the planet, from the creepy crawlies to birds, plants and animals, including human beings.

Some life forms produce several thousand copies of themselves so that one or two will survive to reach the adult stage. It would be ludicrous to think that every copy created survives to adulthood. God/nature just doesn’t work that way. For example, if every fly egg lived to become an adult, the entire planet would be knee deep in flies in only a matter of days.

When you consider the individual members of a life form such as humans, there are indeed beginnings and endings. Given the context that life is a never-ending, ever-moving, ever-changing cycle, the question is: “When does a life form become an independent unit of life, separate from it’s parent?” Placing that dividing line in the cycles of life can only be done by arbitrary choice. ***ps-7-8

T.L.C. Now that I’ve had my biology lesson, how does all this relate this to forced motherhood?

Big D Your no-choice friends have some very specific, religious-based, personal beliefs concerning the process of human biology, and, unfortunately, they are attempting to force those beliefs onto everyone else. They are attempting to take reproductive biology out of the hands of medical science where it is rightly controlled by the doctor and the patient in the context of the patient's individual circumstances, requirements, choices and desires, and place it in the context of religion where everyone’s behavior is to be dictated by the fundamentalist Christians and that behavior is to be enforced by secular, government laws.

If you ask the very specific question: “When does a separate, sovereign, individual, Earth-bound, human life begin?”, the Christians answer using language like: “The creation of the soul is the beginning of an individual human life and God creates a new soul whenever an egg and sperm unite.” This statement is not only un-provable, it ignores their own Christian Bible, (as I’ve already shown you ) and it completely ignores the God-granted, sacred rights of billions of people who follow the non-Christian religions, which teach their followers that “the soul” already exists and merely associates itself temporarily with a collection of these cells called a physical human body.

There are literally billions of people who hold religious belief that say each human is an eternal being having a series of temporary earthly experiences, and, according to their philosophy, the decision to incarnate (enter a physical body) is a mutual co-creation of all the souls involved; however, we need to postpone that discussion until I’ve given you additional basic information. ***ps-7-9

T.L.C. What’s the reasoning and logic for forcing women to become mothers?

Big D For the most part, reasoning and logic are not issues. It’s the assumptions — the underlying, un-provable beliefs held with emotional conviction that create the conflict with non-believers. An example of this is their assumption that a fertilized human egg has been magically transformed by God into a new (never before existing) and independent human being. ***ps-7-10

They talk as though that assumption were a provable fact, and, then to avoid dealing directly with the evidence, they divert attention by arguing for the blatantly obvious. They say that the embryonic tissue growing in the womb is human, alive and unique, and then go on to claim it should be accorded full human rights because it’s human, alive and unique.

T.L.C. Well, it is, isn’t it?

Big D Of course! It’s all three. First, it’s obviously human. The humanness of the embryo is not now nor has it ever been in doubt, but to hear no-choice people talk, you might think someone was proclaiming monkeys or penguins grew in there.

And, is it alive? Of course its alive. The very nature of life is to be alive. The mother’s body is in the process of creating a live copy of itself. It couldn’t possibly be anything but alive.

And as for being unique, like every other physical thing in the entire universe, its absolutely unique. The no-choice people seem, somehow, to be unaware that there is nothing unique about being unique.

T.L.C. Well, if they think being unique is so special, why are they trying to stifle that uniqueness? Why are they attempting to inhibiting everyone’s power of intent and consent? Why are they trampling on free will, freedom, and choice, which is, by their own declaration, a fundamental, God-given right.?

Big D I guess you’ll have to ask them that question.

T.L.C. I would think the right to choose my destiny as a parent or to choose my destiny not to be a parent would fall within the parameters of the God-given right of self-determination.

Big D That does seem reasonable.

T.L.C. I have another question. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that both the egg and sperm were also human, alive and unique before they joined together. I don’t understand why they make such a big deal about the blatantly obvious, especially when nobody’s disagreeing with them. There’s got to be a motive for their actions. What do these claims get them?

Big D Besides covering up the unprovable magic act,***ps-7-10^ the answer is money and political power.

T.L.C. I should have guessed at it would come down to an issue of money. How are they managing this one.

Big D Let’s look at this a little more closely and the answer will become obvious. The men leading the Christian rightwing have consistently come down on the losing side of social issue after social issue. When you ask the question: “Why do they adamantly continue to create controversy and do battle with everyone else in disputes they can't win?” The answer soon becomes obvious. Because controversy sells! And it's a multi-billion dollar business. ***ps-711

T.L.C. It is?

Big D Definitely! It's not winning the battles that count. It's all the money, prestige, publicity, and political power they gain during the fight. It's their way of manipulating, motivating, inspiring, and controlling their followers. It's also a way to attract new followers. The plane and simple answer to the “Why” question is: Controversy sells! And it's a multi-billion dollar business.

T.L.C. Are you saying that forced motherhood is a business tool for sustaining and maintaining the power and prestige of Fundamental Christianity?

Big D What does the evidence tell you? Of all issues used by the fundamental Christian leaders for manipulating the public, the forced motherhood issue is, without doubt, the most powerful and the most lucrative. It brings in more money and creates more publicity for the fundamentalist Christian leaders than all their other issues combined.

The ultra-conservative Christian leaders are noted for a history of racial bigotry and for being anti-sex, anti-sex-education, anti birth control, anti-stem cell research, anti-gay rights, anti-women’s rights, and a few dozen other anti-what-ever-attracts-a-crowd. But the forced mothehood issue out strips them all.

T.L.C. Why do you say that?

Big D Because it strikes human emotions to the core. It combines sex, motherhood, and babies, and no one will ever find a more powerful tool for manipulating the public.

It's such a powerful tool that the no-choice leaders are willing to deny the irrefutable evidence that tell us their entire program is based on an unprovable, Medieval religious fairytale. That fairytale was created by and handed down to present-day society, generation after generation from men who believed the Earth was flat.

It's such a powerful tool that they are willing to continue their absolutely essential and totally unprovable claim that a human being is his or her physical body and do so in the face or the latest scientific evidence which tells us that it's actually impossible for a human being to be his or her physical body.***ps-7-12 It's such a powerful tool that they are willing to deny religious freedom to literally billions of their fellow humans. ***ps-7-13

And it's so powerful that the anti-choice leaders are even willing to defy God's words in their own Bible. ***ps-7-14 It also gets them away from a long list of very real, very relevant, and vitally important questions which are either unanswerable or can be answered only by arbitrary choice.***ps-7-4^

They use one of my master tricks of illusion called “diversion of attention.” Have you ever watched a TV program where they demonstrate and explain how a magician or a con artist can distract your attention with one hand and steal you watch or wallet with the other?

T.L.C. Yes.

Big D But you’re probably not aware that diversion of attention is also a great political tactic.

T.L.C. How so?

Big D Here’s an example. Politicians will sneak a bill through the legislature while attention is distracted by some emotion-laden social event?***ps-7-15

T.L.C. I was not aware of that.

Big D Well, you are now, because diverting attention is exactly what your no-choice friends are doing.

T.L.C. OK, please give me some examples of the questions they’re avoiding?

Big D Here’s four. First, if the Christian Bible is the literal word of God, how can it be wrong? Genesis 2:7 says that life begins at first breath. Ecclesiastes 11:5 says that humans cannot know how God works. If the anti-abortionist’s conception magic act story is correct, then the Bible is wrong. If the Bible is right, then the anti-abortionists are wrong.

Second, where’s the proof that God performed an instantaneous, supernatural transcendental magic act and converted the combining egg and sperm into a new, never-before-existing human being?

Third, why don’t those who do not believe in the Fundamentalists’ version of religion have the right to practice their own religion?

Fourth, “When does the developing life form actually become a sovereign, separate, individual human being?”***ps-7-13^ The no-choice advocates cleverly ignore all of these questions by simply declaring that God made the egg independent, and He did so via His magic act, at conception.

T.L.C. That’s like saying water is water because its wet and it’s wet because it’s water; therefore, abortion should be illegal. Their argument completely defies logic, reason, and common sense.

Big D Stoney, get real. The forced motherhood campaign has nothing to do with logic, reason, or even common sense. It has everything to do with what the public will buy, and what they’ll buy is controlled almost exclusively by emotion, not reason. You should also be aware that a persons emotions are based on his/her underlying beliefs. Just look at some of the things people will pay money for.

T.L.C. Like what?

Big D While knowing full well that cigarettes deadly, thirty-percent of the people in the United States buy and smoke them. Millions have bought the cash-back money scam, and religions that peddle albatrosses of mindless, medieval, religious dogma still have vast followings of devotees who pay the religions leaders mountains of money. Selling the anti-sexual, anti-abortion package to that type of audience is just a matter of putting the correct spin on the issue.

You also need to keep in mind that selling their program also has a lot to do with tapping into the pre-programmed conditioning and beliefs in the minds of their followers. The no-choice promoters are selling their beliefs primarily to people who have been taught that questioning the correctness of a religious authority figure is an act of blasphemy punishable by expulsion from the flock and condemnation to eternity in hell.

In addition to that, most people are trained not to think for themselves. As long as we’re going in senseless circles, I’ll share two Bible passages with you that they use to support their claim.

T.L.C. Whoa! Wait a minute. They could have a hundred, or even a thousand Bible passages supporting their beliefs, and that would still be religion. They’re proposing secular, governmental laws — laws to be enforced by mindless men in uniforms who simply follow orders — laws to be enforced by men with tear gas, guns, and helicopters — laws to be enforced by courts, lawyers and prisons.

Big D Apparently you don’t know that God needs their help to punish the unfaithful.

T.L.C. They believe God is that weak and that stupid?

Big D They don’t say that.

T.L.C. There’s a well known response to such behavior: “What you do speaks so loudly, I cannot hear what you say.”

Big D Would you like to hear their Biblical substantiations?

T.L.C. Sure, why not?

Big D Here’s Jeremiah 1:4-5.

"Then the word of the Lord came to me saying,
before I formed you in the belly, I knew you."

T.L.C. How’s that proof of anything? It doesn’t mention any time frame. That knowing could have come ten seconds or ten billion years before the body’s formation. The passage could very easily, and even more logically, be interpreted to support the reincarnation belief and to support the belief that humans are not their physical bodies.

Big D That brings us, once again, to the question of interpretation and to the ever-present problem of figuring out whose interpretation is the correct one.

T.L.C. What’s the other verse?

Big D Ecclesiastes 11:5, RSV,

"As you do not know how the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of the woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.”

T.L.C. That supports their “life-begins-at-conception” belief?

Big D Yup.

T.L.C. You’ve got to be kidding. In direct repudiation of their claim that they are their bodies, here’s God telling them there’s a distinction between body and spirit. Here’s God telling them they don’t know how the spirit comes into the body. Here’s God telling them that they don’t know how God works. They can’t possibly claim this Biblical passage as evidence to prove life begins at conception. I don’t believe you.

Big D Good job, Stoney. Don’t believe me. Make me prove it.

T.L.C. OK, Big D, prove it!

Big D Look behind you.

I turned, and, about three feet behind, me I saw the edge of a book sticking out of the sand. I reached back, picked it up, brushed off the sand and read the title, I’d Speak Out on the Issues if I Only Knew What to Say by Jane Chastain (Regal Books, Ventura, California, 1987)

T.L.C. Where did this come from?

Big D I’ll explain that to you later. For now, read page 65.

I opened the book and read.

T.L.C. Yup, you’re right. There it is in black and white. She's saying that Ecclesiastes 11:5 supports forced motherhood. Wow! If she’s speaking out for the anti-abortionists, they do have a problem. I’ve always been told that if I don’t know what to say, it’s best I keep my mouth shut.

OK, I’ve got another question. What is the embryo without the God's conception magic act?

Big D It’s embryonic tissue, then fetal tissue in the process of evolving into a physical, human body. This brings us to another of their unprovable assumptions. These people claim they are their physical bodies. ***ps-7-12^ This I-am-my-body claim fits in perfectly with their assumption of being created by God at conception.***ps-7-16

T.L.C. If I’ve got this right, their logic is: 1) God changed the combining egg and sperm into a new, never-before-existing human being, and 2) the resultant, developing tissue is a God-created human being; therefore, 3) it must be held as sacred, as independent and be accorded all the rights of humanity.

Big D That’s their reasoning, but their conclusion is only valid if both assumptions are true. What you just said is typical, no-choice logic. Your statement began with two unprovable assumptions, followed by a “therefore” and ended with a conclusion which is to be accepted as fact.

Are you aware that in a typical anti-choice presentation, there is an additional series of assumptions and the “therefore” conclusions that come after the ones you’ve just said?

T.L.C. No. You mean there’s more?

Big D Actually two more. Here’s the next one. The fertilized egg, having been proclaimed a full-fledged human being, is then declared to be an innocent victim of the combined demonic team of a “baby-killing mother” and an “evil, death-peddling, pro-abortion, money-worshipping doctor.” Therefore, we, the good guys—“the champions of pro-life and divine justice,” are stepping in to rescue that innocent victim.

T.L.C. I can see the Lone Ranger riding in now on his white horse, wearing his white hat, but what you just said is not only flawed reasoning, it’s also a derogatory putdown of those who support freedom of choice.

Big D Stoney, I didn’t make that up. That’s the language they use and the image they’re selling. Have you read any of their literature? ***ps-7-17

T.L.C. No.